Think of all the podcasts you come across, from true crime to news analysis, from celeb chats to neuroscience, from business tips to data analysis. What do the most successful ones have in common? A compelling story.
A strong narrative is key to building emotional connection with an audience and turning casual listeners into longtime fans.
As John Yorke says: ‘While perfect story structure won’t inherently give you a great episode or series, you can’t have a great episode or series without good structure.’
During his long career as a narrative consultant, John has trained the folk at BBC Sounds, Wondery, Spotify, Somethin’ Else and more on story-structure for podcasts, and has worked himself on acclaimed podcasts across a diverse range of genres, including The Coming Storm, Maydays: The White Helmets and Legend: The Joni Mitchell Story. His live online course, Story for Podcasts, is the accumulation of everything John knows about audio storytelling.
Here are John’s quick tips to improve any podcast – fact or fiction – and ensure it has a narrative shape that hooks an audience and keeps them coming back for more:
1. Find the big question
Clarity of purpose is critical to a podcast’s success. If you don’t know why you’re making this podcast, why you’ve chosen X number of episodes, and what purpose each of them has, you risk creating something muddled and aimless.
John says: ‘The ultimate test of any podcast is: what question is driving this series as a whole? What central question is the show asking? What question is each episode answering? That’s why the podcast exists: to answer a series of questions – all related to the big one that governs any series.’
Every episode and series should be driven by a central question that resonates with your listeners. To help identify or refine your show’s narrative direction, ask yourself the following:
- What big question is my show asking?
- How does it answer that question?
- Why is that question of interest to our audience?
You don’t convey anything with fact; you convey everything with emotion.
– John Yorke
2. Create emotional responses
Whether it’s suspense, joy, anger or curiosity, great podcasts conjure up powerful emotional responses in their listeners. John emphasises the importance of stimulating ‘brain chemicals’, like dopamine for curiosity, cortisol for suspense, or righteous anger in justice-oriented stories like The Coming Storm.
To create the emotional response you’re aiming for with your show, try out our next tip…
3. Paint pictures with words
‘This is an age-old thing we learned in radio – fundamentally you need to ask yourself: Are you painting pictures? The best podcasters create a series of vivid visual images in the listener’s mind.’
In audio, visuals are the sense that’s missing but John explains that there’s something incredibly powerful in that limitation, because ‘the pictures you paint in the mind are intimate and personal to you and the listener’.
Instead of relying on facts and dry statistics on a subject – ‘You don’t convey anything with fact; you convey everything with emotion’ – paint with metaphor and analogy for more impact.
John uses a whole host of examples to get this point across, including historic masters of this medium like BBC’s Alistair Cooke, who once described a US naval display as ‘missiles leaping like dolphins in the apocalypse’, or Winston Churchill, who didn’t talk of the concrete cost of victory but the desire to reach ‘broad, sunlit uplands’ once again.
The art of audio lies in the skill with which you create unforgettable mental pictures, linked to a driving narrative.
4. Master suspense
Suspense is all-important to audience retention – every sentence should compel the listener to keep going. You need to hold back key information and control the timing of its release to build a level of anticipation that keeps listeners hooked.
This technique is especially useful in true crime and investigative series like The Coming Storm or Sweet Bobby, which thrive on delayed revelations and carefully timed twists.
It’s important that the protagonist embodies the desires of your audience. This is a very ‘intimate’ relationship.
– John Yorke
5. Find the best protagonist for your audience
In non-narrative podcasts, think of your presenter as the protagonist who drives the story forward. They’re the listener’s avatar.
As with film and TV, it’s important that they’re proactive – try thinking of your presenter as the detective trying to solve the mystery of the story, even outside of investigative series. They’re on a mission to discover a truth about something – and that’s where your central question comes in!
John explains how podcasts are unique in setting up a powerful connection between listener and protagonist: ‘It’s important that the protagonist embodies the desires of your audience. This is a very ‘intimate’ relationship.’
Podcasts often simulate a close conversation, creating a deep emotional bond with listeners. This ‘parasocial’ relationship — where audiences feel they truly know the host — can be key to a podcast’s longevity. Shows like Serial and The Joe Rogan Experience thrive because their hosts expertly embody the desires and aspirations of their audience… aligned with who they want to be, and what they want to learn.
If you’re not sure who your show’s protagonist should be, consider your target audience (age, gender, interests, etc) and who they would most likely relate to, or want as an avatar.
Next steps
If you’re thinking of launching a podcast, or you have one that’s not getting the audience traction it should then John’s live two-day online training on storytelling for podcasts is for you.
With in depth exploration of how long-form story works, how to drive narrative engagement, how to find the right question and how to elicit emotion, it will show you how to elevate your podcast from good to extraordinary.
